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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| See this link to a document about public engagement in climate change
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/12/23134226/2
I am going to a meeting in Glasgow on Tuesday about this. Its with MSP Roseanna Cunningham. I was going to be in Glasgow the next day and we needed a volunteer.
Has anyone got any thoughts on this?
Anne
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Veteran
Posts: 275
| I think the govt's approach to climate change is inconsistent, and that feeds through to people's attitude.
The government says climate change is very important, sometimes even says its the biggest problem of our age, but from its behaviour, it's not as important as economic growth. And (a Westminster rather than Holyrood issue) where action has been taken, as with the FIT, it's been done in such a way that it hides the impact from the public. Similarly with fuel price increases - the noises from Westminster are that duty may be relaxed to limit the impact of high fuel costs - how does that sit with climate change being a big issue? And there's the extra runway at Heathrow, the list goes on and on. Even Donald Trump's golf course - how does it make sense to encourage rich golfers to fly to Scotland if climate change is serious? And the development of renewables is presented by Alex Salmond as primarily an engine of economic growth - but doesn't economic growth feed climate change? It would be interesting to ask whether anyone has done anything to minimise the carbon impact of the meeting in Glasgow - maybe specifying local, vegetarian lunch? or making sure the meeting room has adequate natural light?
In contrast, the approach to the financial deficit has been very clear - we need to cut costs, it's going to hurt, but lets get on with it. So everyone understands, this is a serious issue.
So I think the majority acknowledge that climate change is an issue, but think it's something that isn't worth doing much about just now, because that's the message the government is projecting. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 214
| Mirrors, Martin: I think the people's approach to climate change is inconsistent, and that feeds through to govt's attitude.
The people, govt and nearly all persist in the general perception and purpose that BAU (business as usual, as in the current system) must be protected and maintained at all cost - after all, it is that which determines all their current status (political, financial, resources, facilities, support systems, social, survival) etc. We perceive, I presume, that there is a very high probability that BAU is not viable within a relatively short term.
This document totally fails to recognise that position.
That said, what it does say is generably laudable. However, the preponderance of terms like: engagement (yes I know it's about engagement but one can overuse the term), encourage, consult, contribute, inform, identify, motivate, opportunity, makes my flesh creep a bit.
It does have a significant number of specific action points and they look generally good, but it needs a Geldorf moment:
"Look, this is F***ING serious, you need to get off your big, fat a***s and F***ING do something NOW! Or all you lazy b*****ds are going to die, and it will be your own stupid fault."
It seems to me there's a polite game of pass the warm potato between govt, people etc, sort of recognising that it's a bit dangerous but not realising it's going to explode and kill them all in 3 seconds.
So, the document looks OK - maybe even quite good - within its context, but that totally fails to reflect the true reality. What is needed is rude and honest leadership but no credible politician has the balls or guts to stand up and give that, and policy documents like this are just too damned polite. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| Is that a license for me to 'say it as it is'? (but maybe not with Agric's language!) | |
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Veteran
Posts: 275
| I think Agric's right about the Bob Geldof moment - being polite and smiling sweetly isn't going to change much, you'll be one in 20 people for a short space of time, if you want to get a serious message across it needs to be done forcefully! | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| Yes, it is quite a good document with lots of pledges. I found it interesting that their aim is to inform people about their climate change targets rather than to inform people about climate change. I don't get the impression that they are keen to spell out the gory details of what we're in for - it makes it sound like we're all in for a happy time with lots of people working away on our behalf.
I totally agree with Martin that there is, as yet, no indication that the Scottish Government are willing to let go of the idea of economic growth and start to look at what a steady state economy might look like and how such a society would function. They are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that at we can all go on pretty much as usual with a few tweaks. We need a wholesale restructuring of society to dramatically reduce out impact and provide more space for the natural world. We also need to eek out prescious resources for high value uses that will speed us into a completley new era. Remaining north sea oil should be safeguarded for uses such as building a low carbon infrastructure. Destroying SSSI sand dunes for international golf courses is the height of folly and personally ratified by the first minister! Mixed messages indeed.
I'm with Agric - we need to tell it as it is. And personally I think the governemnt should be more truthful to the people. We're all grown up and don't need the facts sugared. Its the people who really understand that are the most motivated to take action.
Penny | |
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Regular
Posts: 80
| The problem i have with Climate Change is that it makes the move to Low Carbon sound like we have a choice. "We can make a ton of Money out Climate change" Which for me just shows that they just don't get it. They just don't get that the real problem is the system. That more jobs leads to more people being able to afford to buy more stuff. The best thing for the climate is a recession, a depression. If people think they could lose their jobs at any moment, then they stop buying things they don't need.
Climate change doesn't need growth and prosperity, it needs the exact opposite.
What we need is a "Buy Scottish" campaign at every level. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 214
| I do hope you go with the intent of saying it as it is, else why go at all?
Things like this document are certainly a very small part of the solution but really they are just fiddling round the edges, doing not enough while appearing to be doing something.
Time is short enough now for it to be essential to confront these things hard on: this society is going to collapse and hundreds of millions of people worldwide, at the very least, are going to die. Unless massive action and a total change of direction takes place. Why are they not being at least a bit clearer on this?
Do they not recognise the risk? Then how about applying the 'precautionary priciple' just in case.
Do they want to avoid scaring people in case it makes their jobs / re-election difficult? Well, there won't be a 'normal' election post 2015 given our present trajectory and most of the jobs they are hoping to preseve will have evaporated by then.
Or have they concluded that it's too late and are just going through the motions.
I do swear, but not that much. Sometimes it is appropriate and it works as a surprise if not overused. Our policymakers need to get f***ing real or admit they aren't up to the job and f*** off out of the way. If I thought there was time to make sufficient change I'd take them on and tell them so, but there isn't and I have more useful things to do, I think. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| I was just reading some old letters from my Dad who was a water engineer. He described a time after the farmers first started using a lot of nitrate fertiliser. The reservoir turned green and so did the local's washing. They tried everything they could think of but finally just shut off part of the reservoir. 3 days later it was crystal clear as all the algae had died, having used up their nutrients.
I think we are a bit like those water engineers trying desperately to find solutions to the effects but not going far enough back in the system to oversupply and overpopulation. There is a danger that we will end up with a situation very much like the reservoir.
Its not a very attractive prospect. I think we need to tackle the real issues. So if that means being blunt with politicians so be it. | |
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Member
Posts: 8
| I also am fed up of the resounding silence on the real issues we face in the coming decades.
It appears that we are happy to fool ourselves that tinkering round the edges with our solar panels, cycling to work, reducing consumption etc. on our own local scale - however it all fails if we don't get such changes into the mainstream (i.e. through the existing political system).
It appears that bluntness is perhaps one of the reamining tools we have to get people to start to face up to the reality of a very limited availability of oil.
I am intrigued as to the reception you will get - given that the issues are so rarely heard outside groups like ours. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| Here is a list of the people who went. I was pretty forceful. I'm just filling in my feedback form which I will post separately
David Atkinson Convenor Scottish Rural Churches Group Action of Churches Together
May East Executive Director CIFAL Findhorn
Anne Marie Green "Physical Activity Development Worker Stirling Health & Well-being Alliance (representing Go Carbon Neutral Stirling)
" Go Carbon Neutral Stirling - CCF project
Lindsay MacDonald Key Account and Implementation Manager - Enterprise Rent A Car (Representing Go Carbon Neutral Stirling) Go Carbon Neutral Stirling - CCF project
Emma Magret Comrie Carbon Challenge Officer Comrie Development Trust - CCF project
Charlotte McEleney Representative from Sustainable Backcourts Initiative Sustainable Backcourts Initiative- Garrioch Residents association
Kate Paton Head Teacher Currie Community High School
Mike Small Director - The Fife Diet Fife Diet - CCF Project
Mark Sydenham Manager - The Bike Station A Better Way to Work - CCF Project
Anne Thomas Representing transition Black Isle (also Co-ordinator of Friends of the Earth Inverness and Ross) Transition Black Isle - CCF Project
Jill Wood Policy Officer SCIAF - Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund
Kim Member of Rathbone Kilmarnock Project Young Scot
Connor Member of Rathbone Kilmarnock Project Young Scot
Margaret Bryson Manager of Rathbone Kilmarnock Project Support staff for Young Scot Members | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| This is part of my feedback form. I also summarised this discussion and said that we needed to assemble a war cabinet not a tea party!
9. In addition, we would welcome any further comments you might wish to make on the Low Carbon Scotland: Public Engagement Strategy. We are interested to learn of your experiences on public engagement – what works best and what should be avoided? What would help to maximise your contribution to local awareness and action on climate change? How might you help promote the actions in the public engagement strategy? You can provide these comments in the box below or via a separate email.
Transition Black Isle has been going for 2 years. We have generally presented a lot of practical projects which enable everyone to do something themselves about the problems and helps them to become engaged in the issues. These have included
• Creating 2 community gardens and an allotment so that people can grow their own food.
• Running ‘Grow North’ a course on growing food crops so that people can learn together how to do it,
• Starting a new community market and supporting the existing one
• Holding 2 ‘Greening Homes and Gardens’ days. 300 people attended each time and went to a hall and were given a map of where houses were that were open for people to visit and talk to the owners about what they have did to make them greener e.g. installing renewable energy. We also held some seminars
• Film shows
• 2 ‘Question Times’ and a debate (full halls each time)
• Community and School based smart meter loan projects to help people identify where they could save electricity
• Developing the Highland Food Challenge, a local food project encouraging people to eat local, seasonal, organic and more vegetarian together with food events and demonstrations and printing a local food directory.
• We have produced a magazine 3 times a year and kept a website with a forum and regular items in the news.
Generally the Transition approach is to have a vision for the future and work out what we can do to get there and is therefore positive and stresses positive changes such as increasing community resilience.
We have had some discussion on our on line forum and I have had a couple of emails about this document. Overall we felt it was good as far as it went but that lacked urgency and a real understanding of the seriousness of the problems we face. It lacked a ‘Bob Geldorf moment’. I don’t think I quite did that at the meeting but hopefully did get across that this is serious and we cannot carry on with ‘Business as Usual’. It would be nice to be able to take the time to get everyone on board but we do not have that time. We cannot continue to rely on an economic model that requires growth. The world does not have the resources. An alternative model is needed.
Legislation is necessary and people in Scotland are actually very good at complying. e.g. if shops had to keep their doors closed in cold weather they would do so and actually save an enormous amount of energy, reduce their heating bill by about half and reduce their shop’s emissions by an average of about 10 tonnes annually. Smokers argued for their democratic right to pollute other people’s air and kill them but we decided that this was unacceptable and most smokers have now accepted this. Climate change is already killing about 300,000 a year at least, probably more when you take the hike in food prices this year. Politicians have enough money to pay the extra. The poor starve. Carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases should be taxed so that people pay the true environmental cost for their actions and the money used to build the new low carbon infrastructure required. Instead we have a situation where bailed out banks such as RBS are investing our taxes in Tar Sands and other polluting investments whilst trying the ‘greenwash’ of sponsoring climate change week.
There was no mention of peak oil and trying to combat climate change without acknowledging that we will be having decreasing amounts of oil and other resources to do this with is a significant omission. It looks like we have about reached peak oil. It’s all very well demonstrating that petrol prices are too high. It is reasonable to ask for more uniform prices across the UK, but the reality is that oil prices are likely to stay high till we hit another recession and we need to wean ourselves off it as fast as possible and use remaining stocks to build a low carbon future.
We spent rather a long time at the meeting discussing what people wear when cycling. The reality is that if people cannot afford to drive they will get on their bikes or on the buses. Lots of people where I work in Nairn cycle or walk. Some of them for environmental reasons but many of them because they cannot afford a car. As petrol prices go up more people will find they cannot afford a car. A tiny proportion of the roads budget is spent on cycle provision. We do not need more roads as people will soon have to significantly reduce their driving as they will simply not be able to afford to do as much as they currently do. All road spending should be on cycle and pedestrian provision and public transport options. The current congestion problems would be solved too.
The current Climate Challenge Fund has been very welcome to a number of groups and is generally regarded as simpler than other funds e.g. Leader, however a number of people have commented that it would be better if it was more long term and avoided time wasted recruiting and having to avoid having similar projects. It also seems to be counterproductive if projects are eventually to be self funding that they cannot raise any revenue as part of a CCF project. Many carbon savings may take more than a year to realise.
There was no indication that this document was printed on recycled paper or used vegetable inks. We need to recycle paper at least 10 times and conventional inks cause dioxins to be produced and are therefore less useful as recycled products. Waste should be seen as a resource and all Scottish Government documents should use recycled paper as a matter of course.
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Regular
Posts: 53
| Thanks for all this, Anne. I like your tactics and all the points you raised - well done.
Wendy | |
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Public Engagement in Climate Change