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Veteran
Posts: 275
 
| The whole Transition agenda is sometimes seen as part of a wider left-wing mind-set, although much Transition thinking runs counter to traditional socialist ideals - in particular, we are looking to take power and control back from the centre - doing more for ourselves (admittedly as communities rather than as individuals) and needing less from public bodies.
I think there's also a conflict when it comes to thinking about immigration. I hate the idea that, as a wealthy nation, we should close the gates to poor immigrants who just want the same opportunities that we have enjoyed, but it's difficult to see how we can control our local environment without also controlling our population. This article by Herman Daly is an excellent discussion of the issues, although very US-centric. And, unusually, the comments are quite enlightening too. |
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Regular
Posts: 79
Location: Cromarty | Interesting to raise this. No easy answers of course, but surely we need to look at why people wish to emigrate in the first place? The increasing gap between the living standards and quality of life between countries, conflict and exploitation have to be part of the reasons. If people were satisfied with where they are they wouldn't be inclined to move out. Equally, globalised corporate capitalism that just moves and ships money and goods (and people) around the world to suit itself just encourages people to do likewise and move themselves to where, as consumers, they can get the best deal in terms of jobs, social and health services etc. It is the other side of the same coin, so policies on emigration / immigration really need to be matched by similar approaches for the capitalist international corporations. If the big corporations didn't ransack the third world for resources there might be a lot more available for local people. And if we didn't keep selling weapons to poor countries so many people might not have to flee for their lives. International justice, plus more self-sufficiency and localisation of economies, like we promote through the Transition movement would make it easier for people to live happily where they are and less inclined to move. Without the great imbalances, there would be fewer immigrants and emigrants, and so international travel would be much easier and less resisted. |
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Veteran
Posts: 275
| Good points John. Something in the article which I hadn't thought about before was that in the USA, the far right are big supporters of open borders - because that means cheap labour (although they also see it as part of their argument for removing regulation more widely).
Daly also makes the point that, with an ageing population (and therefore one reaching a plateau, or even heading for a decline, which in my view would be helpful) the proponents of never-ending economic growth feel the need for young immigrants to stimulate the economy and help pay the pensions - presumably on the assumption that the immigrants will leave again before they in turn draw a pension. |
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Regular
Posts: 80
| You know politicians are clueless when they call for renewed growth and tighter controls on immigration.
You can't grow an economy without a growing population.
Until 2002 the fertility rate in the UK had been steadily dropping, getting down to 1.6.
In 2002 Poland joined the EU.
The fertility rate in the UK is now about 1.9, still below the replacement rate of 2.1.
When universal pensions were introduced, the retirement age of 65 was chosen because that was about the same as life expectancy.
Also this pyramid scheme calls for an ever growing population and for the pension to apply to only the oldest 1% or 2%.
It is not designed for life expectancy to increase and fertility to decrease. If it was, retirement age would be at about 90.
Scotland is historically the last stop on a migrants trans european journey, that is until we discovered the new world.
The only way that i can see a of reducing the numbers of immigrants is to make your country undesirable.
Perhaps that is happening with growth at 0%.
The question is does transition make us undesirable?
Perhaps with the current consumerist mind set a country community committed to living with less stuff (much less stuff) is somewhere they wouldn't want to live. Voluntary simplicity. Buying less (with less choice), travelling less (or at least not as far or as often) fewer jobs (less time at a job and more time working on whet really matters), growing food the natural way and living with much less energy.
Perhaps with more Transition in more counties working to educate people about the benefits of a simpler life, fewer people will feel the need to leave their Homes.
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Regular
Posts: 85
| This all seems to be about economic migrants. Lets be honest we are a nation of immigrants and who am I to stop others.
However what we also need to consider in the future are people forced to move because of climate change and my hope is that we can make room for people, here on the Black isle, whether from Bangladesh or low lying parts of Britain |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| I think we are already seeing people forced to move because of climate change. Much of the Arab Spring seems to have been kicked off by increasing food prices. The Black Isle may be seen as a very attractive place for people to move to, but it is difficult to know how many people it can support. Certainly the current model of more and more large scale housing developments with everyone forced to commute to urban centres for work and agriculture focused on producing whisky and Christmas trees for export does not bode well. The trouble is if you open borders then people who are happy to work for low wages will come in because the wages are higher than they have been paid back home. We really need to re-balance the whole global economy so that people get decent wages where they come from so they don't need to move just to get enough money to live on, but centuries of colonialism and concentration of power in an elite has developed the system and inequalities just seem to be getting worse faster at the moment. I think the Transition Movement does offer a small glimmer of hope that things can change from the bottom up but as this little clip puts very well at the moment we are concentrating on the goal of 'more' (for a few) rather than 'better' for the many. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpkRvc-sOKk |
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Transition and Immigration
